A great interview with Doc Movies editor, Kobi Shely, preceeding the Traverse City Film Festival screening of
Cleanflix. Direct link to the original post at the Doc Movies site
here.
Kobi Shely » 07.20.10 »
Mormons & Hollywood Fight It Out in Cleanflix Doc
Let’s say you’re a movie-loving Mormon who wants to check out “Titanic,” but your religious leaders won’t let you because of that one scene where a naked Kate Winslet is getting her portrait done by a way-too-happy Leonardo DiCaprio. What do you do? Well, in the early 2000s, you just went to one of the many video stores in Utah that rented out “clean” versions of Hollywood blockbusters, with the R-rated bits digitally removed by enterprising self-appointed censors. Directors Andrew James and Joshua Ligairi (both of whom have ties to the Mormon church) track the rise and fall of these film-sanitizing operations, whose do-it-yourself film revisions brought on the litigious wrath of Hollywood (including Robert Redford, Martin Scorsese and Steven Spielberg) for their sins against copyright. DocMovies the great pleasure to interview CLEANFLIX Directors, Andrew James and Joshua Ligairi and producer, Amber Bollinger. CLEANFLIX will be screening Jul 30 and August 01 at Michael Moore's Traverse City Film Festival.
DM - CLEANFLIX explores the ethical questions raised by the marketing of morality by taking audiences behind the scenes of the sanitized movie industry and shedding light on the Mormon culture that spawned it. What is your conclusion regarding the questions raised by your film?
JAMES - I think one of the conclusions that I draw from the film is that repressed sexuality has the ability to manifest itself in damaging ways. I think sexually oppressive cultures tend to create an atmosphere of shame that can, in some cases, lead people to act out. But I also hope that audiences will draw their own conclusions about the nature of sexual representation in cinema and the question of sanitizing films. We have tried to craft a film that allows audiences to answer these types of questions for themselves.
LIGAIRI - I think it is important to mention that the film really ebbs and flows. It is not just an issue film. It is not just a character piece. We were following this story as it unraveled and each turn brought another question. And so, for me, the film is not about coming to conclusions. It is more about recognizing the strangeness, complexity, and diversity that makes up our world, even in a culture that most would think is pretty homogenized.
BOLLINGER - We have screened the film at festivals all over the world and every audience has had a slightly different reactions to the subject matter. I think that is the best compliment to the job these guys have done. Viewers can walk away with their on interpretation of what the message is. We want to start a discussion or help it keep going without telling the audience what to think.
LIGAIRI - We will be having our Utah premiere soon and I think we are all really curious how the film will be received there.
DM - What inspired you to get involved with these people and make this film? How did you discover them?
JAMES - I had heard about the lawsuit and was interested in doing a doc about the question of sanitized movies.
LIGAIRI - The main inspiration for me was the desire to take a hard look at my own community and examine this movement that I didn't agree with. As we got into it, the convictions and contradictions of these people were really fascinating to me. I knew we were showing a specific cross section of America that most were unfamiliar with.
DM - How did the project come together? Was it difficult to get this film off the ground and into production? What were the major challenges?
LIGAIRI - Andrew and I agreed that we wanted to do the project together over lunch and we were literally shooting within days. Because we both owned our own equipment, it was pretty easy to do the project out of pocket with the two of us just doing everything.
JAMES - We were both in Utah and the timing just sort of worked out. We followed many different threads throughout the process. We did a lot of traveling and investigating and we spent a lot of time on the phone.
LIGAIRI - Andrew was good with the prank phone calls! [laughter] Additional crew and costs really came into play as we hit post-production. I knew the exact people that I wanted to work with to bring the movie home and Amber was definitely at the top of the list.
BOLLINGER - Through our previous relationships, the rest of the crew was quickly assembled to complete the film. I feel really lucky to have been a part of that process and to be working with such talented directors.
DM Are there any particular scenes you like the best, or that you think audiences should really take note of?
BOLLINGER - My favorite parts of the film are the interviews with some of the great directors and producers of our time. There are clips from Michael Mann, Steven Soderebergh and Irwin Winkler to name a few. It is really important to hear these filmmakers speak out in protection of their work. Their points of view are vital to the story.
LIGAIRI - I like the scenes where we are uncovering new mysteries about the rental stores, because that is what it felt like making the film--mysterious. We were always discovering new bits of information and trying to figure out how they fit into the puzzle. Our composer, Chris Ohran, really brought a lot to those scenes as well.
JAMES - I really like the scene with Daniel [Thompson] near the end when he describes his evaluation. For me, that scene ties the whole film together.
LIGAIRI - That is almost a spoiler. [laughter]
DM - Since 2002 DocMovies shares information about the doc industry for filmmakers, a question for our filmmakers readers, how did you deal with copyright issues, did you show clips from Hollywood movies? Were you asked to pay royalty?
LIGAIRI - We cited fair use for the majority of our movie clips. It is interesting because we are a film about people abusing fair use and, at the same time, we are a film that attempts to utilize fair use responsibly. There are some great online resources that lay out best practices in fair use for documentary filmmakers. We were very concious of those guidelines as we constructed the film.
JAMES - Then, we hired an attorney who specializes in fair use and she advised us on how to use each clip properly. We had to change, cut, trim, and alter a lot of different film clips in order to fall within those guidelines, but it was important to us to respect the law as well as the films that we used.
DM - How did you get your subjects to interview for the movie, did they deny your request to appear in CLEANFLIX at first?
JAMES - Many of our subjects denied our requests at the onset and it did in fact take some convincing from time to time. In some instances, permission was never granted. Many of our subjects were worried about legal troubles. Interestingly, we do have a hidden interview in the film. We had a subject who wanted to speak with us, but was worried about getting in trouble. So we suggested doing a hidden interview and it worked out great. Other people were even unwilling to go that far. Everyone is different. You just need to gauge the situation and try and come up with solutions. It also helps to be persistent.
LIGAIRI - And it helps to form relationships of trust. We were very upfront with our subjects and let them know that regardless of our personal points of view, we would always strive to be fair and honest. And then, that is a trust that we had to live up to throughout post-production. We didn't manipulate people's words or sentiments. Everyone has a chance to tell their side of the story.
DM - What were the major challenges?
LIGAIRI - One of the other major challenges was time. This was a huge time commitment. We're not talking Hoop Dreams level of commitment, but we were literally shooting for two years straight and ended up editing for almost another year.
JAMES - The film was relatively easy and inexpensive to shoot. The real challenges came during post-production.
DM - Michael Moore hand picked your film for "Traverse City Film Festival" , what are your aspiration for this film, do you see an acadmey award nomination?
LIGAIRI - Any young filmmaker dreams of an Academy Award at some point, but I have zero expectations. Having said that, I think that the film is something that those in the industry could really embrace and get behind if they had the opportunity to see it. Premiering at Toronto was a great start and hopefully the support of Michael Moore will continue to get the word out.
BOLLNIGER - It was quite an honor to have our film picked by Michael Moore for his festival. It is a unique festival because you can't just submit your film for consideration. Michael [Moore] only selects pictures that have resonated with him from that year. To have our work supported by a titan in the industry is such a compliment and we are absolutely honored to be part of the fest.
JAMES - We are very excited about all of our festivals we've screened at and its great that someone like Michael Moore appreciates the film, but the Academy Awards don't seem very likely to me. I think what we want the most is just for people to see the film. We are proud of the finished product and are excited to share it with audiences.
LIGAIRI - My biggest aspiration for the film is that it sticks around. Staying power is becoming increasingly difficult in the digital age. Whether it is on BluRay or an iTunes playlist or bookmarked on Hulu, I want the film to last. It is an interesting and important portrait of a time and a place that I think will become more strange and more exciting as technology progresses.
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